Forum Activity for @james-phillips

follow up to my idea thread

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I want to thank everyone who decided to have a go on Amazing Grace. Well done!

As a follow up, I was asked, what's up for next month? A continuation of a once a month "challenge" seems like a good idea if it seems like a good idea for others. I'll throw a song out there for people to work on for the month to get ready for posting the first Sunday of the month. A song that came to my mind is the traditional O Shenandoah. I think it is one most folks know and can work on a version of for the coming month.

I'll make it a point to bump this thread up when we have a week to go.

Best,

updated by @james-phillips: 06/11/15 07:42:23AM

Joe, it takes a while to get used to the 1-1/2 fret. But eventually it doesn't pose any problem. I can understand people who want to keep the integrity of the diatonic fretboard, but now that I'm used to the 1-1/2 fret I wouldn't want a dulcimer without one. I love having that flatted third and seventh so easily available by the nut.

Incidentally, notice that used the term "flatted" to mean a note lowered by half a step regardless of whether it is technically a flat note. For example, the F natural in the key of D is called a flatted third because it is a half note lower than the "normal" or "major" third of F#. It is in that sense that we say a diatonic fretboard has no sharps or flats. We mean simply that only the notes of the major scale are available.

Joe, you can't " move " the fret because then it wouldn't work for music traditionally played on the dulcimer. You would still need the third scale position (F#) and it wouldn't be there. But you could add a 1-1/2 fret to get F natural on a string tuned to D. That 1-1/2 fret is getting pretty popular partly for that reason.

Edit: Woops! I just realized that Skip already responded with a comment on the 1-1/2 fret. Please excuse the duplication.

Joe Robison said:

Thanks to Skip, Ken and Linda for their replies. I think it's a little more clear now. What happens if you move the fret to produce F instead of F#? Probably a dumb question. Could this be why some of the old dulcimers don't play well with other instruments?

That's what happens on the D/d strings when you install the 1+. It's because the F is a 1/2 step above the E and the same below the F#. Some of the older instruments used a different calculation [temperment] or 'ear tuning' than what is in common usage today.

Hi Joe,

"Diatonic" refers to any scale that consists of a combination of whole steps and half steps . (The large spaces and smaller spaces on a dulcimer fretboard, for e.g.) This is as compared to "chromatic," which is all half steps . (The spaces between frets on a guitar or mandolin, for e.g.) The term "diatonic" really isn't about sharps or flats - it's about the size of the interval between successive notes in a scale. A diatonic scale can be major, minor or modal; any scale with a mixture of whole steps and half steps can be called diatonic.

A dulcimer is a diatonic instrument because it is NOT chromatic - it does not consist of half step intervals between each of its frets. It doesn't have all the notes.

Linda

www.cabinhillmusic.com

Hi, Joe. When the melody string is tuned to "d" and the melody string is tuned to "A" and the bass string is tuned to "D," you have the dulcimer tuned to the key of D. This key has two sharps in the scale, A# and F#. On a diatonic fret board those sharps will occur at the proper place in the scale. If the book was written for the CGG, there would be no sharps or flats because then you are tuned to the key of C. A diatonic fret board is defined by the spacing of the frets: long, long, short, long, long, long, short. When the 6 1/2 fret is added you are beginning to move toward a chromatic scale which is all short giving a full twelve not scale while the diatonic is only 7 notes. I think part of the confusing comes from trying to explain that the dulcimer is a simple instrument to play. I hope this helps.

Ken

"the dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Probably because they are basing their discussion on the notes available in the key of C. A diatonic fretboard basically means that not all notes are present on the fretboard for one string, those are the wide spaces. If you tune the middle string string on your MD down to G, the third fret will be C. Checking all the notes on that string on the whole number frets will show that there are no sharps or flats.

When you base the discussion on the notes of the key D [G on the 3rd fret], the diatonic fret spacing produces an F#, the key of 'A' [D on the 3rd fret] produces a C# and F#. You only consider one string at a time.

inexpensive geared guitar tuners may actually slip right into the existing holes provided for the wood tuners.

this would by far be the best bet for fixing this problem for a few bucks.

another problem i can see here is there is no slotted piece behind the zero fret. the first fret has slots filed

in it to hopefully keep the strings in position. this looks to me to be problematic. the zero fret could be replaced

with a nut......a job for a skilled luthier

If the builder used off the shelf fiddle pegs, then you could exchange them with Wittner fine tune violin pegs. They are geared pegs that fit in the same holes as fiddle pegs. No further work required. I have installed Peghed brand tuners and they work perfectly but require a skilled person to install properly... Either peg option will cost you near $100. Worm gear tuners are what 99% of dulcimers come with and are the lowest cost option. You will need to modify the peg holes to install them. No matter what you do nothing will look as nice as what you have now... Bob.

I have a dulcimer with wood pegs that are very hard to tune to dAD. But it tunes easily to cGC and cgD. So you might want to tune it lower as I did. Peg dope is great stuff. I make my own with bar soap mixed with blackboard chalk... Bob.

Those look like nicely made pegs. I'd guess the wood is osage orange. Have you tried applying "peg dope" to help them stick better? It's something that all wooden peg instruments like violins, need to have added periodically. A couple drops usually does the trick. I've seldom had problems tuning my Thomas replica with wooden pegs, but I apply a couple drops of 'peg dope' every few months. You can get dope from any shop that sells violins/parts, or from online sources like Musicians Friend. Just google-search "violin peg dope". It sells for under $10 a bottle, which will last a looooonggg time.

Not all peg holes are created equal. And they are tapered, narrower inside than out. So are the pegs, of course, and the tapers must needs match. If you don't like the color of the wooden pegs, you could always dye (not paint or stain) them black, which is more or less the standard color.

If I were you, the first things I would do is contact Scott Wilson. I don't have his contact information handy, but someone may be able to help. You could ask if he has other color pegs he would sell you. At the very least you could find out the size and taper of his pegs/holes and a recommendation for replacement pegs.

If you want to be rid of wooden pegs entirely you could look for "planetary" tuners, of several makes, which will fit in the existing holes but have internal gears and work like conventional geared tuners. The ultimate planetary tuners are the Knilling or Perfection brands, which look exactly like a black ebony peg, but have internal gears. Planetary tuners run about $70 per set of four.

updated by @ken-hulme: 02/16/16 10:36:29AM

Tremolo harmonicas

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Noah, good luck in learning tremolo. Once I discovered the tremolo, l play very little 10 hole harp anymore. The sounds of a quality tremolo can't be ignored. It's a great folk instrument.

Tremolo harmonicas

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

I don't yet, but i will. I do play diatonic

Tremolo harmonicas

Adventures with 'other' instruments...

Hello,

I was just wondering if there are any tremolo harmonica players out there. The tremolo is a lovely instrument to play along with a dulcimer. Basic good quality tremolos can be bought for as little as $20.00 to your door in all keys. Keys of D & A sound the best with dulcimers. Just my two cents.

If you're interested, there is a new web site dedicated to the tremolo:

http://thetremolo.ponderworthy.com/forum

updated by @terry-wilson: 10/27/19 12:02:25PM

Post your favorite song

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

Noah, I'm a fan of Appalachian old-time music and really love some of the music that's come out of West Virginia. One of my favorites out of WV is a tune called Cherry River Line.

Post your favorite song

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

One of my favorites is "Red Wing"

Post your favorite song

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

That's a hard one because I like a lot of songs. I'm working on Sourwood mountain right now. I like a lot of the hymns too like Leaning on the Everlasting Arms

Post your favorite song

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I just want to know what your favorite songs are, Maybe I could get some ideas for songs.

updated by @noah-aikens: 08/02/23 12:42:11AM

I had just one for about 25 years, a Fred Martin all mahogany, my 1st. Now I have about 28. 10 of which I play regularly. It has to be something very special for me to add any more. Thank goodness there's a lot of special ones out there.

I have five now. One is a cardboard. I thought at most I would only have two. I was wrong

Yah... senior moment there. DAc it is... Another 40 years and I'll have it totally right

Well done Ken, you're finally getting the hang of it, just the one error that I can see this post

Aeolian tuning is DAc, not DAC.

Hi Tim;

Thanks to Dan Goad for mentioning my article.

We don't refer to tunings from left to right, or highest to lowest, but rather from bass string to melody string.

Normally we reference with the instrument on your lap, tuning head to the left. Some older books use melody to bass string order though.

The conventional dulcimer has three courses of strings, and one of which can be doubled or even tripled -- bass, middle drone, and melody. Yours has a doubled melody string. Doubled course notes are not mentioned in tunings, unless the two strings of a course are tuned to different notes -- DdAd would be a doubled bass string, one tuned D, the other d; then a middle drone course tuned A and a melody course tuned d.

The difference between D', D and d are octaves. They are all three the same note, just an octave apart in pitch. The D is D3 of a piano; D' is an octave lower than D, and d is an octave higher than D. The sequence goes C', D' E', F', G', A', B', C, D, E, F, G, A, B, c, d, e, f, g etc...

There are 4 course dulcimers, but the strings are spaced equally apart.

The most common tunings are

DAd - Mixolydian Mode

DAA - Ionian Mode

DAC - Aeolian Mode

DAG - Dorian Mode

Each is used for different kinds of songs -- major or minor key, etc.

It's from bass to treble, i.e. lowest string to highest string in pitch. As others have explained, the lower case "d" means it is an octave higher than the upper case "D". Clear as mud, right?

Tim McNamara said:

Thanks, Linda. Just wondering if that D-A-d tuning is left to right? Also: why do you have the third string written as a lower case d?

Thanks again for your help.

Tim, as others have explained, the first "D" refers to the bass string. The second "d" is in lower case to indicate that it is an octave above the bass D and not the exact same pitch.

Tim McNamara said:

Thanks, Linda. Just wondering if that D-A-d tuning is left to right? Also: why do you have the third string written as a lower case d?

Thanks again for your help.

Hello Tim, and welcome to FOTMD and the wonderful world of the Mountain Dulcimer. The first thing I would advise is to read the following:

http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/profiles/blogs/i-just-got-a-dulcimer-now-what

Ken is a member here and a highly respected one.

You're current tuning is the most popular and the string set will be just fine for that. We normally call that tuning DAdd listing the bass string first then the middle string and the melody strings last. Since most play the mountain dulcimer on their laps, the melody strings are the ones nearest you, then the middle with the bass the farthest away from your body (assuming that you are right handed). Ken's blog should get you started then you can ask all the questions that you have. There is no such thing as a stupid or ignorant question here at FOTMD. Have fun and happy strumming.

Hi Tim,

You are already tuned to the most common tuning used these days, often notated as D-A-d (whether the highest string is doubled or not.) The tuning (and chords) are most often called from the bass (lowest in pitch) string. You will find much music written out for this tuning, and if you have an ear, you can sound out melodies easily, using the open d string as the first note of the scale.

The dulcimer is a wonderful instrument to add to one's repertoire. Happy dulcimering!

Linda

www.cabinhillmusic.com

updated by @linda-w-collins: 02/16/16 03:18:31PM

Lynn gave you good advice. I am familiar with June Apple and Carl Gotzmer's craftsmanship. They are excellent instruments. I would not hesitate to purchase one if I had the opportunity to do so. I find June Apples to be delicate and very responsive. Just to let you know where I come from on this, I own quite a few dulcimers some of which I made. My "go to" dulcimer is a Folkcraft and I also play a Blue Lion frequently. If you can each one of those dulcimers, you will know which one is for you.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

Hi Tim,There are so many factors to consider and a lot depends on personal taste as well. Mcspadden and Folkcraft both make fine dulcimers. I don't know much about June Apple. Some things to consider are VSL, Mcspadden has a longer VSL than a Folkcraft which is something to consider. If you have short fingers a shorter VSL is easier to play because your fingers don't have to stretch quite as much . Action is another consideration. When you press the strings to play it should be comfortable. You shouldn't have to press too hard causing strain on your fingers. Looks are another. Some folks are drawn to certain features of a dulcimer such as shape, wood types, length, sound hole patterns and most importantly sound etc. that's why most of us have more than one!....I would do some reading on FOTMD and you'll find a lot of different opinions and helpful comments. If you are able to play the instruments before purchasing I think it would help you with your decision to hear them and get a feel as to how comfortable you feel with each. But you really can't go wrong with either a Folkcraft or Mcspadden. Again, I don't know anything about June Apple. Just my 2 cents....good luck with your search... Your about to start a fun journey!
updated by @lynn-austin: 02/14/16 12:55:02AM

Sorry I should have checked on Amazon before saying the price....but glad you did!I have an old washrag in a ziplock Baggie along with the Ax Wax and just keep them together.I am anxious to hear your thoughts!It's also a great conditioner for the body of the dulcimer!

Nell, I thought I would add that Dr. Duck's Ax Wax is a little costly ( about $ 16 including shipping ) but it lasts a long time. I only use a few drops each time. It cleans and conditions the strings. Also, my fingers slide much easier up and down the fretboard with this great stuff. Again, just my 2 cents

Hi Nell, another thing that seems to have an effect on the strings is finger oils and other things that "dirty" them. I use "Dr. Ducks Ax Wax" to wipe down my strings each time I play. I have been doing this for a long time, and this doesseem to condition them and help keep them sounding bright.

Just my 2 cents - or maybe just a penny

Good luck!

Also I've found that new strings often require retuning because they do stretch a little under the constant tension. After a short time the will stabilize and hold tune a lot better.

weather does effect sound on some instruments....is the dulcimer in a case ?......or exposed?

An Idea

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

As this was the first '"challenge" tune posted, but like how I re-did Shenandoah a bit ago, I re-did my clip of Amazing Grace. Hopefully the quality is much improved since the posting I did of this. http://youtu.be/zP0PL2tmTHA

An Idea

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

James: I have not objection if people want to post their Amazing Grace videos in the main video area, but I strongly suggest that we also post them as responses to that discussion asking for different versions of the song. I think there are three reasons to do so. First, although it might be easy to find the videos on January 4, when they are all lined up, after a few days when another few dozen videos have been posted it will be less obvious who participated in your fun and interesting challenge and we'll have to do a search in the video area and then look at the date posted to find out who was involved. If we all post our versions in that discussion, then we will always know where they are and they will be much easier to find since they'll be grouped together. Second, if they are all in one discussion, we can have a more coherent discussion about them, pointing out similarities and differences and so forth. If we don't have one central location for that discussion, then all we have is a separate discussion for each video. Third, not everyone checks into FOTMD nearly every day as I do (yes, I admit it, I'm a dulcimer geek). If someone reads about your idea on January 8 but would still want to participate, she or he could do so simply by posting to that ongoing discussion.

Pamela: Flint Hill already created a tutorial on how to post videos as part of the introductory material to the Call the Tune group. You can find it here . If you want to post your video in the general video area, then all you have to do is copy the URL and post it in that discussion. But the tutorial explains how to embed videos as well.

And let me also reiterate James's point about amateur videos. None of us play with as much technical precision as Mark Gilston or Stephen Seifert or with as much emotion as Nina Zanetti or Linda Brockinton. But that does not mean that we have nothing to say musically. This website is specifically intended as a place where amateurs can share their passion for our beloved instrument. I am often moved more by playing that is not perfect from a technical standpoint but is played with genuine interest and passion. In addition, I urge everyone to record themselves playing on a regular basis, even if you choose not to share those videos with everyone else. As you continue to play, you will get better, but that progress sometimes happens slowly, and unless there is some record of what you sounded like last week or last month or last year, you won't be aware of how much you are progressing. And I don't know about you all, but I find playing music so frustrating that I need to be reminded of my own progress as a way to stay optimistic about my playing.

An Idea

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

i am in

An Idea

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I need to admit that I was sort of bad and never saw that reply. I did not know that group existed at all, which makes me wonder if others may not know if it existed. I just figure putting it in the main videos section would give everyone a chance to see it, without looking through the videos.

Marg - just remember = This is not MGM or a movie studio. Do the best with what you have on hand. I know mine are not the best, because I have a laptop with a built in camera and mic I use, plus I play my FolkRoots on my desk when recording. I think as long as the *feeling* is there, that is what matters first and foremost. I'd rather see a video where it isn't the best quality technical wise, but the playing was spot on. Having both is ideal, but if it was one or the other, you now know my feelings.

An Idea

General mountain dulcimer or music discussions

I also think that would be a cool idea, James. But I note, as Robin did, that we have a group specifically designed for people to share their interpretations of common tunes. I would suggest that we post our versions of Amazing Grace onto the discussion Travis started years ago specifically on that tune, and to which many people have already posted their versions of the hymn. It will be nice to have one place to enjoy everyone's interpretation and to share ideas and encouragement. Here is a link to that existing discussion: http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/group/callthetune/forum/topics/ama... .

In the introductory discussion of the Call the Tune group, there is a link to a tutorial on how to post videos to FOTMD, so those who haven't yet figured out how can join the fun!

I'm going to start practicing tomorrow!